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Post by Deuterium Oxide on Dec 30, 2014 8:48:29 GMT -5
Gator kept using this stat today: Stafford is 0-15 on the road against winning teams in his career. Why can't he win on the road? Is he just plain old not as good as he should be? This is one of the biggest paint eating stats I've ever seen. So suddenly football isn't a team game? So the lions success now solely falls on the shoulders of Stafford? Yup, Gator is right- Stafford lost all of those games by himself. Yep, no stat I hate more than QB W-L. Nothing stupider.
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jrolla
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 267
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Post by jrolla on Dec 30, 2014 8:53:14 GMT -5
I just saw that Stafford was sacked 45 times this year. Only Bortles (55), Tannerhill, Kaepernick and Alex Smith had more. By comparison- Romo (30), Rogers (28), Big Ben (33), Peyton (17), and Brady (21), Brees (29), Luck (27) all took significantly less QB pressure despite having more or nearly as many passing attempts. Yet- to the lions fan base- it's easier to just replace the QB than our entire offensive line and O-line coach All year I've said the same thing about the O-Line but he missed a ton of open players and sailed a bunch of balls last week. None of those were on the O-Line. That has become a pattern for him in big games even ones he had protection last year.
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Post by Deuterium Oxide on Dec 30, 2014 9:00:01 GMT -5
I just saw that Stafford was sacked 45 times this year. Only Bortles (55), Tannerhill, Kaepernick and Alex Smith had more. By comparison- Romo (30), Rogers (28), Big Ben (33), Peyton (17), and Brady (21), Brees (29), Luck (27) all took significantly less QB pressure despite having more or nearly as many passing attempts. Yet- to the lions fan base- it's easier to just replace the QB than our entire offensive line and O-line coach A lot of that is the Oline for sure but some of that is on Stafford holding the ball too long. There were at least a couple of those sacks in the GB game where he held on too long and kept pumping then got sacked.
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Post by aaugusti on Dec 30, 2014 9:45:26 GMT -5
A lot to catch up on. First, Eli is not Barely 3rd tier. He is easily 2nd tier. Yes he has thrown a lot of picks, but he also has 2 Super Bowl rings with a lot of clutch victories in the playoffs. He isn't his brother, but to say Stafford is better at this point is preposterous.
Second, D2O says Stafford holds onto the ball too long. If you look at his Average time to pass attempt (defined as average time from snap to attempted pass), he ranks 11th in the league at 2.50 seconds. Players that have a longer Avreage to attempt are Luck, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, and Romo.
Now I will look at Average time to to throw (defined as the time the QB has from snap to Pass Attempt/Sack/Scramble past LoS). Stafford ranks 15th in the NFL at 2.66 seconds.
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Post by fastfreddie on Dec 30, 2014 9:49:46 GMT -5
A lot to catch up on. First, Eli is not Barely 3rd tier. He is easily 2nd tier. Yes he has thrown a lot of picks, but he also has 2 Super Bowl rings with a lot of clutch victories in the playoffs. He isn't his brother, but to say Stafford is better at this point is preposterous. Second, D2O says Stafford holds onto the ball too long. If you look at his Average time to pass attempt (defined as average time from snap to attempted pass), he ranks 11th in the league at 2.50 seconds. Players that have a longer Avreage to attempt are Luck, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, and Romo. Now I will look at Average time to to throw (defined as the time the QB has from snap to Pass Attempt/Sack/Scramble past LoS). Stafford ranks 15th in the NFL at 2.66 seconds. Eli is an outlier. I think he needs to stay away from most NFL QB discussions, because he is such a unique "exception to the rule". We may never again see a guy win two Superbowls, yet play so awful during other seasons. Maybe the closest comparison is Trent Dilfer, a decent game manager that won a Superbowl with a great supporting cast.
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Post by Deuterium Oxide on Dec 30, 2014 9:59:36 GMT -5
A lot to catch up on. First, Eli is not Barely 3rd tier. He is easily 2nd tier. Yes he has thrown a lot of picks, but he also has 2 Super Bowl rings with a lot of clutch victories in the playoffs. He isn't his brother, but to say Stafford is better at this point is preposterous. Second, D2O says Stafford holds onto the ball too long. If you look at his Average time to pass attempt (defined as average time from snap to attempted pass), he ranks 11th in the league at 2.50 seconds. Players that have a longer Avreage to attempt are Luck, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, and Romo. Now I will look at Average time to to throw (defined as the time the QB has from snap to Pass Attempt/Sack/Scramble past LoS). Stafford ranks 15th in the NFL at 2.66 seconds. Rodgers and Luck in particular have better "escapability" than Stafford. Both can move around in the pocket or get out on the edges to extend the time before they throw. Additionally, both are more accurate on the move.
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Post by aaugusti on Dec 30, 2014 10:07:25 GMT -5
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Post by Deuterium Oxide on Dec 30, 2014 10:16:55 GMT -5
I think some are confusing better career with ability. Eli has easily had the better career however current ability, they are on the same level IMO. Eli played pretty well this year but he was REALLY bad the last couple yrs. If given a choice I would probably take Stafford just because he is younger.
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Post by aaugusti on Dec 30, 2014 10:24:38 GMT -5
I get that. I still think Eli is underrated because he is Peyton's Little Brother. Even Archie once said that between the two Eli was the better athelete, but Peyton always had far more drive and passion.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Dec 30, 2014 10:43:16 GMT -5
So Cousins, Hoyer and Sanchez will be free agents this year, and none of them are expected to be signed as starters. If you are the Lions, do you bring any of them in to be Stafford's back-up and possibly push/compete for his job? I really want nothing to do with any of those guys but at this point I don't know what other options The Lions have. If they plan on drafting a QB to sit behind him I don't know how high of a pick they would use so that might not even be worth it. Mayhew won't so it's moot. Stafford is the guy.
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jrolla
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 267
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Post by jrolla on Dec 30, 2014 10:54:19 GMT -5
I think some are confusing better career with ability. Eli has easily had the better career however current ability, they are on the same level IMO. Eli played pretty well this year but he was REALLY bad the last couple yrs. If given a choice I would probably take Stafford just because he is younger. Unfortunately physical ability doesn't always translate to being a better QB. Eli made great throws and smart decisions when it mattered most. Stafford does not. The difference is between the ears.
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Post by joeking1978 on Dec 30, 2014 16:04:00 GMT -5
A lot to catch up on. First, Eli is not Barely 3rd tier. He is easily 2nd tier. Yes he has thrown a lot of picks, but he also has 2 Super Bowl rings with a lot of clutch victories in the playoffs. He isn't his brother, but to say Stafford is better at this point is preposterous. Second, D2O says Stafford holds onto the ball too long. If you look at his Average time to pass attempt (defined as average time from snap to attempted pass), he ranks 11th in the league at 2.50 seconds. Players that have a longer Avreage to attempt are Luck, Rodgers, Rivers, Ryan, and Romo. Now I will look at Average time to to throw (defined as the time the QB has from snap to Pass Attempt/Sack/Scramble past LoS). Stafford ranks 15th in the NFL at 2.66 seconds. Eli has 2 rings- so that alone makes him an elite QB? Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer all won super bowls too- are they elite QB's? He's never had a rating over 100- in fact he averages 81 over his career- has 229 TD's to 177 INT while throwing 27 this year. He has a 58% career passing percentage and hasn't been over 60% in 2 years. In his 2 best years- (SB) he had barely a 91 rating and ranked 10th in the NFL passing. His fraud SB numbers were very pedestrian, but because LIKE STAFFORD- he had a momentary flash of brilliance with his game winning TD drives (one including an absolutely miraculous catch on a poorly thrown ball)- he won MVP. So for you to say he's an elite QB when he has never been a top 10 passer in the NFL in a single season is laughable. Regarding your "ball holding" stats- I'm not sure what you are saying. So he is 11th as in only 10 people hold it longer and of them- Rogers, Luck et.al. Hold it longer?
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Post by aaugusti on Dec 30, 2014 16:21:10 GMT -5
Joe, I did not say the word "elite" in my description of Eli. Not one time. I said he is better than Stafford. Being better than Stafford is not equal to being elite.
As for the stats on time to throw, 10 QBs get the ball out quicker than Stafford. The onles I listed all hold the ball on average longer than Stafford.
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Post by joeking1978 on Dec 30, 2014 16:29:14 GMT -5
So only 10 people throw it faster? Yet the players you mentioned all hold it longer? So how does that play into my point about how much pressure he sees? He's forced to throw it fast (which could lead to more mistakes) and he is still getting sacked more
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Post by eruff on Dec 30, 2014 16:52:29 GMT -5
DAMN! How many excuses are people going to make for him. If it's not the OC calling horrible plays it's the O-line, if it's not the O-line it's he don't have enough around him to make him an average Qb.
The guy is a below average Qb and it won't change even if you cherry pick players from every team in the NFL. Every year it's something different.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Dec 30, 2014 16:58:01 GMT -5
DAMN! How many excuses are people going to make for him. If it's not the OC calling horrible plays it's the O-line, if it's not the O-line it's he don't have enough around him to make him an average Qb. The guy is a below average Qb and it won't change even if you cherry pick players from every team in the NFL. Every year it's something different. I don't think anybody argued that he's not average. We said it's not all on him. Some of it is but this is a team sport. He throws arrant passes with or without pressure and guys are still dropping the passes he does get to them.
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Post by eruff on Dec 30, 2014 17:08:11 GMT -5
DAMN! How many excuses are people going to make for him. If it's not the OC calling horrible plays it's the O-line, if it's not the O-line it's he don't have enough around him to make him an average Qb. The guy is a below average Qb and it won't change even if you cherry pick players from every team in the NFL. Every year it's something different. I don't think anybody argued that he's not average. We said it's not all on him. Some of it is but this is a team sport. He throws arrant passes with or without pressure and guys are still dropping the passes he does get to them. I agree but you can say that for every Qb in the NFL. The difference is that even with bad O-lines and no name WR's the decent Qb's always seem to make the best of what they have.
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reggie
All-Pavel Datsyuk
Posts: 895
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Post by reggie on Dec 30, 2014 17:14:27 GMT -5
he made 11 wins and a playoff game with what he had. in a year when most projected 6-7 wins tops.
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Post by eruff on Dec 30, 2014 17:21:00 GMT -5
he made 11 wins and a playoff game with what he had. in a year when most projected 6-7 wins tops. Projected by who? They had subpar .500 schedule
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reggie
All-Pavel Datsyuk
Posts: 895
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Post by reggie on Dec 30, 2014 17:32:28 GMT -5
that's right - i forgot you had them 13-3. hence the disappointment.
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Post by eruff on Dec 31, 2014 8:24:08 GMT -5
that's right - i forgot you had them 13-3. hence the disappointment. It's no disappointment at all. Stafford has done nothing to warrant him in any conversation of him being anything other than a average/below average Qb. The guy makes a living beating bad teams and falling short all the time against good teams. Look it up Ask yourself this. Where would the team be if the fraudulent didn't have such bad opponents? The good teams expose the defense and the bad teams did want bad teams do. Give away games late to another bad team.
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Post by smoothskillzz on Jan 6, 2015 14:28:40 GMT -5
wow i made all matt staffuck..........gotta hurry up and get outta dis
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Post by Lead Dong on Jan 7, 2015 0:05:45 GMT -5
Need to take a QB in the 3rd or 4th round.
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Post by mtdman on Jan 7, 2015 1:35:04 GMT -5
I like stafford.
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Post by smoothskillzz on Jan 7, 2015 5:05:03 GMT -5
Need to take a QB in the 3rd or 4th round. what abt kellen moore......
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