Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 7, 2017 22:28:43 GMT -5
I told myself I wasn't gonna get on the officials but when the tv crew is saying you're getting jobbed then?
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reggie
All-Pavel Datsyuk
Posts: 895
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Post by reggie on Jan 7, 2017 22:36:38 GMT -5
yikes @ that hold on hyder
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 7, 2017 22:45:31 GMT -5
Can't believe nobody is getting fired after this.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 7, 2017 22:58:25 GMT -5
He caught that ball with his dick.
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reggie
All-Pavel Datsyuk
Posts: 895
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Post by reggie on Jan 7, 2017 23:02:58 GMT -5
a parking cone would probably beat don carey in coverage.
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Post by mtdman on Jan 7, 2017 23:03:16 GMT -5
Can't believe nobody is getting fired after this. Get ready for more of the same coming soon.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 7, 2017 23:11:23 GMT -5
Stafford threw 32 times. Only four or five were at the sticks or further.
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 8, 2017 0:11:19 GMT -5
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Post by eruff on Jan 8, 2017 9:23:37 GMT -5
No defensive adjustments at all. Great coaching. No amount of adjustments wouldve helped them last night. Rawls and Wilson played like they desevered to be in the playoffs. Coaching impact always get exaggerated.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 8, 2017 10:05:48 GMT -5
Not much else to be said but the Lions don't have the talent yet to get to the next level. They have pieces, and need to continue to build on them. I like Decker, Glasgow, and Swanson. Hopefully they can get Warford resigned and find a new RT. Tomlinson is a pussy. RB is a need as is a strong WR who can stretch the field. I like Marvin Jones, but he lets himself get pushed around too much.
On defense they need to replace Ngata and Walker at DT. I like the heart hat Whitehead and Bynes bring, but they are beater suited to be your 3rd and 4th LBs, not starters you count on. Levy is a shell of what he was 2 years ago. Lawson is an ok CB, but should be a nickel not a starter.
After the Cincinnati game I said they are an 8-8 team talent wiser, and reaffirmed that while driving back from the Indy game. For his foibles in game management (for which there are many), Caldwell had this team playing above their talent level, and I credit him for that.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
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Post by Pollux on Jan 8, 2017 13:51:41 GMT -5
I'm not pissed that they lost because I wasn't expecting them to win. I hoped they could find a way with limited talent to go take a game for once but it is what it is. The defense was on the field over 36 minutes so it's no shock guys flat out got beat on the last touchdown.
I agree with all the needs listed above. I'd even throw a defensive end and another tight end in there too.
Most likely you aren't going to hit on almost every draft pick again so that puts us two offseasons away with all they need.
The drops last night were agregious and many of them would have been first downs or more. Stafford had a ball die in the first quarter, overthrew a couple, and missed a couple wide open guys late trying to force it. That being said he looked like he was ready to ball but the receivers killed it. You can't try to be the best guy on the field and carry the team on your shoulders when the receivers are dropping balls they have their hands on.
The officiating sucked but it was not the difference in this game.
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Post by steve6884 on Jan 8, 2017 15:55:16 GMT -5
I wish Caldwell showed as much emotion on the field as he does yelling at the media at press conferences
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 8, 2017 19:00:45 GMT -5
I wish Caldwell showed as much emotion on the field as he does yelling at the media at press conferences This team lacks emotion. It's like having 53 Caldwells.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 8, 2017 21:53:00 GMT -5
I'm not pissed that they lost because I wasn't expecting them to win. I hoped they could find a way with limited talent to go take a game for once but it is what it is. The defense was on the field over 36 minutes so it's no shock guys flat out got beat on the last touchdown. I agree with all the needs listed above. I'd even throw a defensive end and another tight end in there too. Most likely you aren't going to hit on almost every draft pick again so that puts us two offseasons away with all they need. The drops last night were agregious and many of them would have been first downs or more. Stafford had a ball die in the first quarter, overthrew a couple, and missed a couple wide open guys late trying to force it. That being said he looked like he was ready to ball but the receivers killed it. You can't try to be the best guy on the field and carry the team on your shoulders when the receivers are dropping balls they have their hands on. The officiating sucked but it was not the difference in this game. Yeah DE is a need as well. I think that gets addressed in Free Agency though.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 9, 2017 0:28:14 GMT -5
I'm not pissed that they lost because I wasn't expecting them to win. I hoped they could find a way with limited talent to go take a game for once but it is what it is. The defense was on the field over 36 minutes so it's no shock guys flat out got beat on the last touchdown. I agree with all the needs listed above. I'd even throw a defensive end and another tight end in there too. Most likely you aren't going to hit on almost every draft pick again so that puts us two offseasons away with all they need. The drops last night were agregious and many of them would have been first downs or more. Stafford had a ball die in the first quarter, overthrew a couple, and missed a couple wide open guys late trying to force it. That being said he looked like he was ready to ball but the receivers killed it. You can't try to be the best guy on the field and carry the team on your shoulders when the receivers are dropping balls they have their hands on. The officiating sucked but it was not the difference in this game. Yeah DE is a need as well. I think that gets addressed in Free Agency though. Probably so. Pick #21 is most likely going to be a #1 receiver.
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wacko
All-Andre Drummond
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Post by wacko on Jan 9, 2017 8:33:49 GMT -5
I would prefer to take a DE like Taco Charlton in the first round and take a Boldin-like flyer on a WR like Desean Jackson, Pierre Garçon, Andre Holmes, or even Kendall Wright than spend pick #21 on Corey Davis or John Ross.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 9, 2017 11:43:54 GMT -5
Yeah DE is a need as well. I think that gets addressed in Free Agency though. Probably so. Pick #21 is most likely going to be a #1 receiver.
Doubtful. I looked at the Patriots drafts under Belichick in NE. Quinn grew up under him more than anyone else. Most importantly I looked at what did NE do with their first pick each year. It broke down like this:
DT-5 DE-1 LB-2 DB-3 OL-3 RB-1 TE-1 WR-0 QB-0
So 6/16 first picks were DLine, and another 3 Oline. 2 Offensive Skill positions. Quinn's draft last year mirrored that a lot in terms of what was prioritized. So honestly, I would be pretty shocked if it were a WR at 21.
I will say this, while I have not been opposed to keeping Caldwell something changed. It has nothing to do with his game management and so forth. I was looking on Wiki to see how old he was, and I found a nugget from his time at Vanderbilt. It noted that the school set records for passing, but was always horrible in the run game. Not so different from the Lions today. Then I looked at his time in Baltimore as OC. The year he took over for Cam Cameron in Baltimore the Ravens ranked 10th in rushing. The next year (his full year as OC) they ranked 30th. The next year Baltimore ranked 9th.
Then I looked at how Indy did rushing the ball. In the mid 2000s they were middle of the pack running the ball, then steadily declined to the bottom of the league. Indy's line at the time was pretty damn good too. I am not in practice everyday, but this is leading me to believe that running the ball in practice is not a focus for Jim Caldwell. Look at the current Lions team. Their run blocking is awful. This in turn translates to the run defense, because if you aren't practicing against it, you aren't going to be good against it either. So I go back to Schwartz last year in Detroit. The Lions ranked 17th in rushing. In Caldwell's first year they ranked 28th, and have not gone above that number.
Again, these are facts that I just can't ignore. It is too much of a pattern. Jim Caldwell offenses do not run the ball, and I don't see that trend changing. I think that he has done wonders for Matthew Stafford, but he is ultimately not doing the QB any favors either.
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 9, 2017 12:04:34 GMT -5
Probably so. Pick #21 is most likely going to be a #1 receiver.
Doubtful. I looked at the Patriots drafts under Belichick in NE. Quinn grew up under him more than anyone else. Most importantly I looked at what did NE do with their first pick each year. It broke down like this:
DT-5 DE-1 LB-2 DB-3 OL-3 RB-1 TE-1 WR-0 QB-0
So 6/16 first picks were DLine, and another 3 Oline. 2 Offensive Skill positions. Quinn's draft last year mirrored that a lot in terms of what was prioritized. So honestly, I would be pretty shocked if it were a WR at 21.
I will say this, while I have not been opposed to keeping Caldwell something changed. It has nothing to do with his game management and so forth. I was looking on Wiki to see how old he was, and I found a nugget from his time at Vanderbilt. It noted that the school set records for passing, but was always horrible in the run game. Not so different from the Lions today. Then I looked at his time in Baltimore as OC. The year he took over for Cam Cameron in Baltimore the Ravens ranked 10th in rushing. The next year (his full year as OC) they ranked 30th. The next year Baltimore ranked 9th.
Then I looked at how Indy did rushing the ball. In the mid 2000s they were middle of the pack running the ball, then steadily declined to the bottom of the league. Indy's line at the time was pretty damn good too. I am not in practice everyday, but this is leading me to believe that running the ball in practice is not a focus for Jim Caldwell. Look at the current Lions team. Their run blocking is awful. This in turn translates to the run defense, because if you aren't practicing against it, you aren't going to be good against it either. So I go back to Schwartz last year in Detroit. The Lions ranked 17th in rushing. In Caldwell's first year they ranked 28th, and have not gone above that number.
Again, these are facts that I just can't ignore. It is too much of a pattern. Jim Caldwell offenses do not run the ball, and I don't see that trend changing. I think that he has done wonders for Matthew Stafford, but he is ultimately not doing the QB any favors either.
Pretty interesting analysis... so does this mean you no longer care if he stays or gets canned
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Post by philly on Jan 9, 2017 12:35:50 GMT -5
Watching Caldwell trying to figure when to call timeouts is as painful as watching my mother trying to make a post on facebook.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 9, 2017 13:13:02 GMT -5
Doubtful. I looked at the Patriots drafts under Belichick in NE. Quinn grew up under him more than anyone else. Most importantly I looked at what did NE do with their first pick each year. It broke down like this:
DT-5 DE-1 LB-2 DB-3 OL-3 RB-1 TE-1 WR-0 QB-0
So 6/16 first picks were DLine, and another 3 Oline. 2 Offensive Skill positions. Quinn's draft last year mirrored that a lot in terms of what was prioritized. So honestly, I would be pretty shocked if it were a WR at 21.
I will say this, while I have not been opposed to keeping Caldwell something changed. It has nothing to do with his game management and so forth. I was looking on Wiki to see how old he was, and I found a nugget from his time at Vanderbilt. It noted that the school set records for passing, but was always horrible in the run game. Not so different from the Lions today. Then I looked at his time in Baltimore as OC. The year he took over for Cam Cameron in Baltimore the Ravens ranked 10th in rushing. The next year (his full year as OC) they ranked 30th. The next year Baltimore ranked 9th.
Then I looked at how Indy did rushing the ball. In the mid 2000s they were middle of the pack running the ball, then steadily declined to the bottom of the league. Indy's line at the time was pretty damn good too. I am not in practice everyday, but this is leading me to believe that running the ball in practice is not a focus for Jim Caldwell. Look at the current Lions team. Their run blocking is awful. This in turn translates to the run defense, because if you aren't practicing against it, you aren't going to be good against it either. So I go back to Schwartz last year in Detroit. The Lions ranked 17th in rushing. In Caldwell's first year they ranked 28th, and have not gone above that number.
Again, these are facts that I just can't ignore. It is too much of a pattern. Jim Caldwell offenses do not run the ball, and I don't see that trend changing. I think that he has done wonders for Matthew Stafford, but he is ultimately not doing the QB any favors either.
Pretty interesting analysis... so does this mean you no longer care if he stays or gets canned
I am more in the camp of he needs to go. There are things that he does well in terms of getting the players behind him, but this is something that just doesn't sit well with me.
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Post by Juicy on Jan 9, 2017 22:42:02 GMT -5
That's pathetic for a team from a cold weather city. That plays in a dome and whose QB also played college ball in a dome? Stafford played in a dome in college? That's interesting news...... Jesus man.
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Post by mtdman on Jan 10, 2017 20:52:59 GMT -5
They need to spend all their draft picks on defense. DBs, LBs especially. If they do that drafting the best player available shit, Quin is a joke. They should be drafting to fill holes, and there is nothing but holes in that defense.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 10, 2017 21:29:51 GMT -5
They need to spend all their draft picks on defense. DBs, LBs especially. If they do that drafting the best player available shit, Quin is a joke. They should be drafting to fill holes, and there is nothing but holes in that defense. There are nothing but holes all over. I agree they need to focus on defense but if something seems like a BPA pick it still works. They need a #1 receiver, RB, and a RT. Maybe a RG too if they lose Warford.
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Post by eruff on Jan 11, 2017 7:51:32 GMT -5
They need to spend all their draft picks on defense. DBs, LBs especially. If they do that drafting the best player available shit, Quin is a joke. They should be drafting to fill holes, and there is nothing but holes in that defense. There are nothing but holes all over. I agree they need to focus on defense but if something seems like a BPA pick it still works. They need a #1 receiver, RB, and a RT. Maybe a RG too if they lose Warford. With so many holes on a roster why the hell would any GM elect to resign a QB that will cost themn 25m? Trade him for as many picks that you can get and fill your holes as needed. If Quinn is as good as people claim he would have a solution for a team that doesnt feature Padford....
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 11, 2017 8:40:42 GMT -5
Valenti was bitching about Quinn yesterday. Absurdly said that he had one good draft (he's only been here one year), and said what if that was a lucky draft and he drops the ball this year?
I'm willing to take that chance. He had an outstanding draft in year one, there is nothing to make me think he will do poorly going forward.
There are holes for sure, but a little patience is in order....this shit show was not fixable in one year.
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