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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:26:12 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:26:12 GMT -5
that whole angle has basically been abandoned ( in popular belief about Suh, who has said nothing on the topic).. its basically about money in most professional's opinions at this point. whoever pays, gets him Right, about money, but I thought the whole point was he felt he could get many more $$ from endorsements outside of Detroit? Promoting his lack of basic people skills etc? That was the original thought.. but most are now saying that the NFL's brand is so big that there is no difference outside of some BS ads on billboards or something.. I dont know if I buy it, but thats what theyre saying
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:26:17 GMT -5
Post by eruff on Jan 6, 2015 15:26:17 GMT -5
I was going off the detroit freep article...... I dont know what he article said, but you either have awful reading comprehension or it was wrong. Well you should read it you c0ck blower. Do the math and it does comes out to 22-24 mil but heres what the article said....
The Lions could use the franchise tag on Suh. Even though that would cost the Lions nearly $27 million in 2015, it might be worth it to keep the best player on the NFL's No. 2 defense in Detroit, especially with the salary cap projected to increase significantly
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:28:37 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:28:37 GMT -5
where, in what you just posted, did it say that it was 20% above the average of the top 5 salaries? and what you "bolded" is exactly what we've been saying. 26 and change to franchise him, because that's 120% of his current salary, a figure thats greater than the average of the top 5 DT salaries.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:30:17 GMT -5
Post by philly on Jan 6, 2015 15:30:17 GMT -5
Looks like the Lions fucked themselves by restructuring the contract. They basically can't franchise him. The salary cap hit would be $36 million www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-08-13/ndamukong-suh-detroit-lions-contract-trade-best-option-salary-cup-disaster-geno-atkins-haloti-ngataHow the Lions got here Suh represents one of the last remaining rookie contracts signed under the rules of the 2006 collective bargaining agreement. During the terms of the old CBA, agents and players had a great deal of leeway to ask for major contract concessions from the team. Suh’s contract would run for just five years with an expected value of $60 million and a maximum value of $68 million. A huge chunk of that, $40 million, was virtually guaranteed upon signing. Because of the salary structures used in these rookie contracts, teams had to avoid modifying the contracts prior to a first extension. The Lions, however, would proceed to make a disaster out of Suh’s contract, showing almost no thought of long-term planning. Suh’s contract would be reworked for salary cap relief in both 2012 and 2013, pushing salary cap charges further and further into the contract. To make matters worse, Suh’s deal contained a voidable contract year in 2015, which was simply used as a placeholder for salary cap charges. The charges in the voidable year will remain with the Lions whether or not Suh is on the team that season. Suh’s original contract would have called for a salary cap charge of $16.147 million in 2014 with just $3.472 million left in charges in the 2015 season. Following all of the restructuring, his cap charge grew to $22.4125 million in 2014 with $9.7375 million in charges still sitting in that voidable contract year. These decisions have compromised the Lions’ ability to negotiate a long-term extension with Suh at a reasonable compensation level and contract structure. Normally teams will threaten a player with a franchise tag when negotiating a contract, and under his prior contract structure, that figure would have been $19.226 million. While that number seems incredibly high, it would be less cash than he would receive in a contract extension and both sides would have reason to get a contract done. Now the cost of the franchise tag will be $26.745 million with a salary cap charge of $36.483 million.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:32:27 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:32:27 GMT -5
Looks like the Lions fucked themselves by restructuring the contract. They basically can't franchise him. The salary cap hit would be $36 million www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-08-13/ndamukong-suh-detroit-lions-contract-trade-best-option-salary-cup-disaster-geno-atkins-haloti-ngataHow the Lions got here Suh represents one of the last remaining rookie contracts signed under the rules of the 2006 collective bargaining agreement. During the terms of the old CBA, agents and players had a great deal of leeway to ask for major contract concessions from the team. Suh’s contract would run for just five years with an expected value of $60 million and a maximum value of $68 million. A huge chunk of that, $40 million, was virtually guaranteed upon signing. Because of the salary structures used in these rookie contracts, teams had to avoid modifying the contracts prior to a first extension. The Lions, however, would proceed to make a disaster out of Suh’s contract, showing almost no thought of long-term planning. Suh’s contract would be reworked for salary cap relief in both 2012 and 2013, pushing salary cap charges further and further into the contract. To make matters worse, Suh’s deal contained a voidable contract year in 2015, which was simply used as a placeholder for salary cap charges. The charges in the voidable year will remain with the Lions whether or not Suh is on the team that season. Suh’s original contract would have called for a salary cap charge of $16.147 million in 2014 with just $3.472 million left in charges in the 2015 season. Following all of the restructuring, his cap charge grew to $22.4125 million in 2014 with $9.7375 million in charges still sitting in that voidable contract year. These decisions have compromised the Lions’ ability to negotiate a long-term extension with Suh at a reasonable compensation level and contract structure. Normally teams will threaten a player with a franchise tag when negotiating a contract, and under his prior contract structure, that figure would have been $19.226 million. While that number seems incredibly high, it would be less cash than he would receive in a contract extension and both sides would have reason to get a contract done. Now the cost of the franchise tag will be $26.745 million with a salary cap charge of $36.483 million. yeah, most of us have been saying that for 6 months.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:33:18 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:33:18 GMT -5
its not 36 million.. some of the money is dead. it isnt part of the franchise number. its sunk cost, irrelevant. we have to pay it whether hes on the team next year or not. 26 and change is the franchise number
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:34:24 GMT -5
Post by philly on Jan 6, 2015 15:34:24 GMT -5
Well I've been hearing a lot of people on the radio saying they would franchise him in the last week. We know you're all knowing flem.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:38:30 GMT -5
Post by eruff on Jan 6, 2015 15:38:30 GMT -5
Looks like the Lions fucked themselves by restructuring the contract. They basically can't franchise him. The salary cap hit would be $36 million www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-08-13/ndamukong-suh-detroit-lions-contract-trade-best-option-salary-cup-disaster-geno-atkins-haloti-ngataHow the Lions got here Suh represents one of the last remaining rookie contracts signed under the rules of the 2006 collective bargaining agreement. During the terms of the old CBA, agents and players had a great deal of leeway to ask for major contract concessions from the team. Suh’s contract would run for just five years with an expected value of $60 million and a maximum value of $68 million. A huge chunk of that, $40 million, was virtually guaranteed upon signing. Because of the salary structures used in these rookie contracts, teams had to avoid modifying the contracts prior to a first extension. The Lions, however, would proceed to make a disaster out of Suh’s contract, showing almost no thought of long-term planning. Suh’s contract would be reworked for salary cap relief in both 2012 and 2013, pushing salary cap charges further and further into the contract. To make matters worse, Suh’s deal contained a voidable contract year in 2015, which was simply used as a placeholder for salary cap charges. The charges in the voidable year will remain with the Lions whether or not Suh is on the team that season. Suh’s original contract would have called for a salary cap charge of $16.147 million in 2014 with just $3.472 million left in charges in the 2015 season. Following all of the restructuring, his cap charge grew to $22.4125 million in 2014 with $9.7375 million in charges still sitting in that voidable contract year. These decisions have compromised the Lions’ ability to negotiate a long-term extension with Suh at a reasonable compensation level and contract structure. Normally teams will threaten a player with a franchise tag when negotiating a contract, and under his prior contract structure, that figure would have been $19.226 million. While that number seems incredibly high, it would be less cash than he would receive in a contract extension and both sides would have reason to get a contract done. Now the cost of the franchise tag will be $26.745 million with a salary cap charge of $36.483 million. Damn, thats the results of being a bad franchise
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:39:38 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:39:38 GMT -5
Well I've been hearing a lot of people on the radio saying they would franchise him in the last week. We know you're all knowing flem. Yeah, the media talking heads are saying it because they think the lions should do anything to keep him. It would be financial suicide to franchise him, which ive been saying on here for weeks. It takes all of 11 seconds and simple math to be "all knowing" on this subject. In order to franchise him.. you continue a downward spiral of cap hell.. it means calvin and stafford have to restructure, deferring their ridiculous cap hits, making them even more ridiculous in the future. Calvin already has a 20 mil hit next year and stafford is in line for a 20+ mil hit after that. further deferral re-creates the Suh situation 3x over.. If the lions do that, theyre fucking themselves way more than theyre already fucked, in the future. the calvin contract is awful, its a baseball contract in a cap league.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:42:17 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:42:17 GMT -5
They currently appear to have ~20 mil in space. to franchise Suh would take 26. they still need to sign other free agents, which is going to take anywhere from 7-12 mil, plus the rookies they draft (5-7 mil). so if you franchise Suh, you have to find a way to restructure/ clear 22 million dollars. Where is that coming from? the only feasible place is from calvin and stafford.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:44:03 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:44:03 GMT -5
Staffords cap hits over the next 3 years 17.7, 22.5, 22.0 Calvins cap hits over the next 3 years 20.5, 24.0, 21.3
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:48:11 GMT -5
Post by philly on Jan 6, 2015 15:48:11 GMT -5
Basically can't sign suh. They're fucked.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:53:37 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:53:37 GMT -5
Basically can't sign suh. They're fucked. If theyre going to sign him, they need to sign him to a long term deal worth 17-18 per, which turns having to clear 22 mil into having to clear 13-14, which still puts them in a bad spot, but not nearly as bad. 2016, they complete lose the extra 10+mil of dead money and the cap will probably go up slightly again, helping them out. There is absolutely no way they can franchise him without further fucking themselves down the line. its a desperation move 100%
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:56:38 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 15:56:38 GMT -5
The Calvin deal and the way its structured is a fucking noose, pure and simple. comparable guys in the league dont make anywhere near what he makes and he's not even that guy anymore. he's not head and shoulders better anymore, he's just really good when healthy. he should be making like 10-12, not 17 and not counting 20+ against the cap
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 15:58:46 GMT -5
Post by philly on Jan 6, 2015 15:58:46 GMT -5
I agree, Calvin doesn't do much for me. Always hurt and not dominant enough for what he makes.
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Post by Chromium on Jan 6, 2015 16:00:14 GMT -5
I really don't think the crying thing had anything to do with his upcoming Free Agency. That is just people and media jumping to conclusions. It was an emotional game and he's just a weird dude anyways, that is most likely why he was so emotional. Whatever it was (who knows the motive), it looked fake. He was just having a hard time starting the discussion about domestic violence.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 16:07:47 GMT -5
Post by aaugusti on Jan 6, 2015 16:07:47 GMT -5
If you franchise him and then trade him, the 26 Million cap hit goes to exactly $0. Yahoo Sports is reporting that as many as 10 teams are lining up "titanic bids" for him. If that many teams are willing to go into a bidding war, you HAVE to franchise him. Even if you get 50 cents on the dollar for him it is better than just letting him walk.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 16:18:41 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 16:18:41 GMT -5
if you dont find a trade partner, then youre fucked.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 16:19:33 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 16:19:33 GMT -5
what is the cap hit for the receiving team if he's been franchised by us? still 26 mil? or depends on if they can agree to terms with him? that part I don't get.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 16:21:17 GMT -5
Post by philly on Jan 6, 2015 16:21:17 GMT -5
I'm assuming the other team would only trade you their cap disaster.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 16:24:37 GMT -5
Post by flemgoblue on Jan 6, 2015 16:24:37 GMT -5
I'm assuming the other team would only trade you their cap disaster. or draft picks
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wacko
All-Andre Drummond
Post Hall of Fame Inductee
Posts: 172
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 17:55:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by wacko on Jan 6, 2015 17:55:44 GMT -5
I'd offer him 100 million for 6 years with 60 million guaranteed. (Gerald McCoy got 95 million for 6 years with 50 guaranteed earlier this year)
If he balks at that, then I'd let him walk and then take that money and make a run at Darrell Revis and bring back Fairley and draft a DT high.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 18:10:11 GMT -5
I want DT and TE with the first two picks next year.
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 19:06:03 GMT -5
Post by aaugusti on Jan 6, 2015 19:06:03 GMT -5
what is the cap hit for the receiving team if he's been franchised by us? still 26 mil? or depends on if they can agree to terms with him? that part I don't get. First off, when (it is not if it is when) the Lions franchise tag him, they do not have to have the cap space clear until he signs the contract. The franchise tag is nothing more than a tender offer, just like restricted free agency. Once tagged, the Lions can continue to negotiate with Suh, as well as every other team in the league. If another team signs him, the Lions have the right match the contract, or receive 2 first round picks in return. A team can also contact the Lions and say they would like to sign Suh and instead of giving a 1st this year and next, may offer a different trade. At that point the rights are traded and the receiving team signs him to a contract. Again, the 26 Million Cap hit does not hit the Lions unless Suh signs his tender offer. Suh will not sign his tender offer, because the minute he does, the only team that he can negotiate with is the Lions. Finally, Rotoworld reported that at least 10 teams are putting together "titanic offers" for Suh. That assures me that the Lions will Franchise him.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Suh
Jan 6, 2015 19:25:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Pollux on Jan 6, 2015 19:25:33 GMT -5
I have to agree. Even though I'm done with his bullshit we need the douchebag. It's to big of a risk to take. Giving Suh a contract compairable to Watt or McCoy with a defense that still has a few needs is just being desperate IMO.
You could easily take that money spread across the entire defense and be a better unit, instead of having a great DL with an subpar secondary.
I don't think you end up paying that. It goes back to what aaugusti posted. You franchise him and let his agent do the work. You get to match any deals if you want and if you don't want to you get compensation.
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