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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 15:56:51 GMT -5
Law enforcement should hold everyone who committed or hid acts held accountable. NCAA should then ban people that committed crimes.
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:06:12 GMT -5
Were you fucked in the butt by a football coach by chance? As a father, I 100% agree with the need for punishment for those who are guilty and retribution for the victims. The players on those team are not guilty and don't to be punished by proxy. Their punishment is no retribution to the victims. As a father, I'd want everyone who committed or hid the acts held accountable. As to your other fucking question, no. But I would expect a father to feel strongly about defenseless kids being raped. You're being more concerned about football wins makes me wonder if you had been and enjoyed it... All this
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waxing
All-Andre Drummond
Posts: 177
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Post by waxing on Jan 16, 2015 16:09:32 GMT -5
Rehashing everything that happened at Penn St. is pointless in 2015. None of us can go back and fix it.
To me, this today is all about the NCAA's using the record book as a bargaining chip. It's beyond disgusting. As to the players who lost those wins - did they really? They all know what the scoreboard said at the end of those games. To me, having those asterisks and footnotes is important so that what happened up there isn't forgotten.
Instead of being upset about what the record book says, maybe those players could all be advocates for not allowing what happened at Penn State to occur anyplace else. Tell people that while they won xx games while they were in school, the record books says they didn't win those because of a coach that violated children and that the people in power around him were too stupid to recognize it and take proper action to make it stop.
I'm livid that the NCAA has just decided there was essentially nothing to see here ... so lets all just move along.
I can't speak to how the victims feel today, but I recon it ain't very good.
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Post by AK on Jan 16, 2015 16:09:34 GMT -5
Ncaa killed joepa, uni can have their wins back
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:11:09 GMT -5
As a father, I'd want everyone who committed or hid the acts held accountable. As to your other fucking question, no. But I would expect a father to feel strongly about defenseless kids being raped. You're being more concerned about football wins makes me wonder if you had been and enjoyed it... All this So what exactly is JoePa's punishment?
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:12:24 GMT -5
He's burning in hell.
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waxing
All-Andre Drummond
Posts: 177
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Post by waxing on Jan 16, 2015 16:14:10 GMT -5
The NCAA killed him, literally. Paterno knew he was going to die if he wasn't coaching, read Bacon's last book.
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Post by AK on Jan 16, 2015 16:14:12 GMT -5
Agreed They took the one thing keeping him alive from him and he died... Sandusky is probably prancing around prison dropping the soap on the reg
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:17:41 GMT -5
Rehashing everything that happened at Penn St. is pointless in 2015. None of us can go back and fix it. To me, this today is all about the NCAA's using the record book as a bargaining chip. It's beyond disgusting. As to the players who lost those wins - did they really? They all know what the scoreboard said at the end of those games. To me, having those asterisks and footnotes is important so that what happened up there isn't forgotten. Instead of being upset about what the record book says, maybe those players could all be advocates for not allowing what happened at Penn State to occur anyplace else. Tell people that while they won xx games while they were in school, the record books says they didn't win those because of a coach that violated children and that the people in power around him were too stupid to recognize it and take proper action to make it stop. I'm livid that the NCAA has just decided there was essentially nothing to see here ... so lets all just move along. I can't speak to how the victims feel today, but I recon it ain't very good. That's my point. The NCAA is acting like there is nothing to see. JoePa did nothing wrong. They were wrong. Everything was handled by he and the university okay. Lets put everything back the way it was. They promised it won't happen again. And since nothing happened in the first place, it's all good.
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:19:22 GMT -5
How many wins should be vacated if a player or a coach murders someone psycaz? Or is that okay?
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:27:11 GMT -5
How many wins should be vacated if a player or a coach murders someone psycaz? Or is that okay? Did the coach know the player killed someone and hid the fact because he was the star player and he felt they'd lose otherwise? Should those wins count? Should it be ok to shield a murderer for the sake of winning a basketball game?
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waxing
All-Andre Drummond
Posts: 177
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Post by waxing on Jan 16, 2015 16:28:20 GMT -5
How many wins should be vacated if a player or a coach murders someone psycaz? Or is that okay? Speaking only for myself - I think the topic changes when its a systematic problem. A one time deal like a murder - the perp is the only one responsible and it should be treated that way. A player or coach murdering someone doesn't necessarily speak to a dysfunctional environment that led to a repeated series of crimes. If you're talking a coach that was a serial murderer that was enabled by the program, then ya - shut em down and vacate that they ever existed. There has to be punishment beyond just the criminal system when a program goes off the tracks and a series of felonies happens. Is firing enough? I say no - you want not only the adults in charge to think twice, but the players and ballboys, and medical stafs -- everyone -- to care and get involved to be able to stop something like what was happening at Penn St. It wasn't only Sandusky -- it was a problem from the university president to the assistant coaches. The "oh well, it doesn't affect me personally" thing already runs too strong in our society.
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:29:49 GMT -5
How many wins should be vacated if a player or a coach murders someone psycaz? Or is that okay? Did the coach know the player killed someone and hid the fact because he was the star player and he felt they'd lose otherwise? Should those wins count? Should it be ok to shield a murderer for the sake of winning a basketball game? Didn't Michigan coaches hide the fact that someone was raped by a player? I guess rape is okay to cover up.
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:33:32 GMT -5
How many wins should be vacated if a player or a coach murders someone psycaz? Or is that okay? Speaking only for myself - I think the topic changes when its a systematic problem. A one time deal like a murder - the perp is the only one responsible and it should be treated that way. A player or coach murdering someone doesn't necessarily speak to a dysfunctional environment that led to a repeated series of crimes. If you're talking a coach that was a serial murderer that was enabled by the program, then ya - shut em down and vacate that they ever existed. There has to be punishment beyond just the criminal system when a program goes off the tracks and a series of felonies happens. Is firing enough? I say no - you want not only the adults in charge to think twice, but the players and ballboys, and medical stafs -- everyone -- to care and get involved to be able to stop something like what was happening at Penn St. It wasn't only Sandusky -- it was a problem from the university president to the assistant coaches. The "oh well, it doesn't affect me personally" thing already runs too strong in our society. Is beating/raping women a felony? Asking for a friend. NCAA is arbitrary and can't handle these type of investigations.
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:34:51 GMT -5
Did the coach know the player killed someone and hid the fact because he was the star player and he felt they'd lose otherwise? Should those wins count? Should it be ok to shield a murderer for the sake of winning a basketball game? Didn't Michigan coaches hide the fact that someone was raped by a player? I guess rape is okay to cover up. Did they? Why isn't it being investigated? It should be. If they covered it up, SAME result. Vacate. The staff involved should be penalized by the law and the NCAA. Winning football games can not be placed above human decency. I don't give a fuck what program it is.
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:35:54 GMT -5
Covering up a crime IS a crime.
Crimes should have penalties.
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:36:44 GMT -5
If the institution doesn't do anything about the situation, they should be punished.
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waxing
All-Andre Drummond
Posts: 177
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Post by waxing on Jan 16, 2015 16:37:05 GMT -5
The Gibbons deal is tricky. Because there weren't criminal charges involved, they were pretty limited in what they could say due to privacy laws. IMO, the UMPD and AAPD dropped the ball on that one first, and the U-M AD just followed along.
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Post by AK on Jan 16, 2015 16:37:20 GMT -5
What if she had it coming to her/ asking for it?
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waxing
All-Andre Drummond
Posts: 177
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Post by waxing on Jan 16, 2015 16:39:28 GMT -5
NCAA is arbitrary and can't handle these type of investigations. 1000% agree. I think we're all on the same page here, the NCAA is a farce and proves it more and more every day.
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:39:55 GMT -5
Didn't Michigan coaches hide the fact that someone was raped by a player? I guess rape is okay to cover up. Did they? Why isn't it being investigated? It should be. If they covered it up, SAME result. Vacate. The staff involved should be penalized by the law and the NCAA. Winning football games can not be placed above human decency. I don't give a fuck what program it is. You don't remember Brandon Gibbons? archive.freep.com/article/20140225/NEWS06/302250086/gibbons-federal-investigation-university-michigan-rapeMichigan Coach Brady Hoke said he wasn’t aware of the protest, part of which was spent calling him out by name for what the students believe are lies he told about why Gibbons wasn’t with the team. “I said before, believe me, I can’t say anything,” he said in response to a question. “I don’t like that, but I can’t.” According to Ann Arbor police reports, the alleged assault against the woman student took place at a fraternity party in November 2009. The woman and Gibbons both agreed in the interviews with police that they were talking on the first floor of the house and at some point in the evening went upstairs. From there, the stories diverge, according to police reports obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests by the Free Press. The woman told police that she went upstairs with Gibbons and ended up in a bedroom, where she was pushed down on the bed. She alleged Gibbons pulled down the spandex leggings she was wearing underneath her dress and despite her protests, raped her. Police saw bruises on her arm where she claimed Gibbons held her down. Gibbons told police in a separate interview that they went upstairs and were kissing in a bathroom before going into a bedroom. He claimed the sex was consensual and volunteered to take a polygraph. There are no records in the police files showing whether he took a polygraph test. In December 2010, friends of the woman reported to police that Gibbons’ teammate Taylor Lewan approached them and told them if she pressed charges he would rape her, according to police reports. Last week, Lewan, during talks with reporters prior to the NFL draft, denied making those remarks. In January 2010, the case against Gibbons was dropped because the woman did not get back with Ann Arbor police who wanted to know if she wanted to press charges. Gibbons, a fifth-year player who had been taking graduate school classes, was removed for “violating the university’s Student Sexual Misconduct Policy,” based on a letter the campus newspaper said was sent to Gibbons’ Florida home on Dec. 19 by U-M’s Office of Student Conflict Resolution, which deals with disciplinary proceedings against students. After being Michigan’s starting kicker throughout the final four years of his career, Gibbons did not play in the Nov. 30 Ohio State game because of what Hoke later described as a muscle problem. That was 10 days after a separate document reviewed by the Daily cited there was “a preponderance of evidence” against an individual that “engaged in unwanted or unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature.” The Daily identified Gibbons as that individual. Gibbons, 22, did not make the Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl trip with his teammates. Hoke told reporters that Gibbons was dealing with a family matter in Florid
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Post by philly on Jan 16, 2015 16:40:58 GMT -5
The Gibbons deal is tricky. Because there weren't criminal charges involved, they were pretty limited in what they could say due to privacy laws. IMO, the UMPD and AAPD dropped the ball on that one first, and the U-M AD just followed along. Wasn't Lewan going around threatening people?
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psycaz
All-Matt Stafford
Posts: 482
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Post by psycaz on Jan 16, 2015 16:46:10 GMT -5
Did they? Why isn't it being investigated? It should be. If they covered it up, SAME result. Vacate. The staff involved should be penalized by the law and the NCAA. Winning football games can not be placed above human decency. I don't give a fuck what program it is. You don't remember Brandon Gibbons? archive.freep.com/article/20140225/NEWS06/302250086/gibbons-federal-investigation-university-michigan-rapeMichigan Coach Brady Hoke said he wasn’t aware of the protest, part of which was spent calling him out by name for what the students believe are lies he told about why Gibbons wasn’t with the team. “I said before, believe me, I can’t say anything,” he said in response to a question. “I don’t like that, but I can’t.” According to Ann Arbor police reports, the alleged assault against the woman student took place at a fraternity party in November 2009. The woman and Gibbons both agreed in the interviews with police that they were talking on the first floor of the house and at some point in the evening went upstairs. From there, the stories diverge, according to police reports obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests by the Free Press. The woman told police that she went upstairs with Gibbons and ended up in a bedroom, where she was pushed down on the bed. She alleged Gibbons pulled down the spandex leggings she was wearing underneath her dress and despite her protests, raped her. Police saw bruises on her arm where she claimed Gibbons held her down. Gibbons told police in a separate interview that they went upstairs and were kissing in a bathroom before going into a bedroom. He claimed the sex was consensual and volunteered to take a polygraph. There are no records in the police files showing whether he took a polygraph test. In December 2010, friends of the woman reported to police that Gibbons’ teammate Taylor Lewan approached them and told them if she pressed charges he would rape her, according to police reports. Last week, Lewan, during talks with reporters prior to the NFL draft, denied making those remarks. In January 2010, the case against Gibbons was dropped because the woman did not get back with Ann Arbor police who wanted to know if she wanted to press charges. Gibbons, a fifth-year player who had been taking graduate school classes, was removed for “violating the university’s Student Sexual Misconduct Policy,” based on a letter the campus newspaper said was sent to Gibbons’ Florida home on Dec. 19 by U-M’s Office of Student Conflict Resolution, which deals with disciplinary proceedings against students. After being Michigan’s starting kicker throughout the final four years of his career, Gibbons did not play in the Nov. 30 Ohio State game because of what Hoke later described as a muscle problem. That was 10 days after a separate document reviewed by the Daily cited there was “a preponderance of evidence” against an individual that “engaged in unwanted or unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature.” The Daily identified Gibbons as that individual. Gibbons, 22, did not make the Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl trip with his teammates. Hoke told reporters that Gibbons was dealing with a family matter in Florid If the staff intimidated the victim, they should be punished. If they know Lewan threatened the victim and did nothing, they should be punished. If the staff hid evidence, they should be punished. The incident was reported to the police. Philly, I hold no gray line on this. If a program puts its sports above the welfare of fellow students or people, that can't be allowed to continue. If they report and cooperate with authorities, then fine.
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Post by Chromium on Jan 16, 2015 16:46:25 GMT -5
From Deadspin , not my own.......
I feel really positive for all the Penn State alumni who will interpret this move as a validation of what they've claimed all along: That their hero was not the driver of a nefarious coverup, but was simply too much of a stupid pants-shitting old dullard to put the pieces together, realize what was going on, and take even the slightest bit of humane action on behalf of the young children getting ass raped in his locker room.
Honestly, that has to feel good for them. Smile broadly, Happy Valley! You are the victors today.
Love it.
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waxing
All-Andre Drummond
Posts: 177
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Post by waxing on Jan 16, 2015 16:46:34 GMT -5
Very little doubt about Lewan. But again, no criminal charges. A solution for the Lewan incidents of the world is light years different than what the Sandusky case involved. There is no excuse for the Gibbons/Lewan situation that I care to make, but you certainly can see the difference between that and the systematic collapse at Penn State?
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