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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 11:46:29 GMT -5
Tulloch restructured... As well as Calvin... Franchise Suh (hopefully he doesn't need to be), cut Jones, cut Broyles and Bush (unless they can restructure or cut and resign- I think he is in Tulloch and Fairly's boat as he has proven to be a injury risk and like Tulloch- he is in the twilight of his career expectancy as a RB).
So that, with a late round first rounder- likely a lineman or unfortunately... A TE... I am curious how there won't be enough money for both Suh and Fairly
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wacko
All-Andre Drummond
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Post by wacko on Jan 11, 2015 11:51:56 GMT -5
I guarantee you they are not taking a TE in the first round. It will be someone on the offensive or defensive line... if there was a dark horse luxury pick would be a RB.
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 11:55:17 GMT -5
It's the lions- they'll probably draft Funk to play TE
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Post by eruff on Jan 11, 2015 12:59:17 GMT -5
I am looking for an explanation to why you think Fairly is going to attract big offers? Fairley will get every bit of 7-10 million a season. He's a very good run stuffer. Teams like Vikings, Jacksonville, Giants and a few others would love to add him to their roster…….
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 14:16:34 GMT -5
So you think Fairly will get too 3-5 DT tackle money? He's only getting $3mill a year now... What has he done to warrant more than doubling his salary?
If any team wants to pay him that much- that can have him. The only organization I see being dumb enough maybe Oakland
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 14:42:52 GMT -5
I am looking for an explanation to why you think Fairly is going to attract big offers? Fairley will get every bit of 7-10 million a season. He's a very good run stuffer. Teams like Vikings, Jacksonville, Giants and a few others would love to add him to their roster……. Here... People smarter than eruff sharing their thoughts on Fatley (I know- that's a long list) m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2007672-whats-next-for-nick-fairley-lions-after-team-declined-to-pick-up-optionAfter reading this- I like the idea of filling that hole via the draft and letting Fatley go. Lions wouldn't pick up his 5.5 mill option, which told the rest of the league he's not worth it. But you think he may get as high as $10mill/yr? .
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Post by eruff on Jan 11, 2015 15:41:07 GMT -5
Fairley will get every bit of 7-10 million a season. He's a very good run stuffer. Teams like Vikings, Jacksonville, Giants and a few others would love to add him to their roster……. Here... People smarter than eruff sharing their thoughts on Fatley (I know- that's a long list) m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2007672-whats-next-for-nick-fairley-lions-after-team-declined-to-pick-up-optionAfter reading this- I like the idea of filling that hole via the draft and letting Fatley go. Lions wouldn't pick up his 5.5 mill option, which told the rest of the league he's not worth it. But you think he may get as high as $10mill/yr? . It's the NFL and teams overpay for talent. Every offseason you can point to multiple contracts where players get overpaid. The Lion's declined his option because he was out of shape. Maybe 10m was a stretch. We will see what he get on the open market and then have that conversation later…..
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 11, 2015 16:50:02 GMT -5
So you think Fairly will get too 3-5 DT tackle money? He's only getting $3mill a year now... What has he done to warrant more than doubling his salary? If any team wants to pay him that much- that can have him. The only organization I see being dumb enough maybe Oakland Fairley's on his rookie deal.. of course he's getting a raise.
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 11, 2015 16:51:53 GMT -5
Tulloch restructured... As well as Calvin... Franchise Suh (hopefully he doesn't need to be), cut Jones, cut Broyles and Bush (unless they can restructure or cut and resign- I think he is in Tulloch and Fairly's boat as he has proven to be a injury risk and like Tulloch- he is in the twilight of his career expectancy as a RB). So that, with a late round first rounder- likely a lineman or unfortunately... A TE... I am curious how there won't be enough money for both Suh and Fairly Tulloch restructured will free up maybe 2-3 mil, cutting bush will free up less than 2, Broyles will free up 1, so youre basically saying you think cutting jones and restructuring Calvin is going to clear 20 million dollars to sign suh and fairley.. good luck with that
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 17:21:45 GMT -5
So you think Fairly will get too 3-5 DT tackle money? He's only getting $3mill a year now... What has he done to warrant more than doubling his salary? If any team wants to pay him that much- that can have him. The only organization I see being dumb enough maybe Oakland Fairley's on his rookie deal.. of course he's getting a raise. A raise to be paid like the top 3-5 DT's in the NFL? You're just as dumb as eruff if you think so. No one is paying him more than $5mill/yr
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 17:31:29 GMT -5
Tulloch restructured... As well as Calvin... Franchise Suh (hopefully he doesn't need to be), cut Jones, cut Broyles and Bush (unless they can restructure or cut and resign- I think he is in Tulloch and Fairly's boat as he has proven to be a injury risk and like Tulloch- he is in the twilight of his career expectancy as a RB). So that, with a late round first rounder- likely a lineman or unfortunately... A TE... I am curious how there won't be enough money for both Suh and Fairly Tulloch restructured will free up maybe 2-3 mil, cutting bush will free up less than 2, Broyles will free up 1, so youre basically saying you think cutting jones and restructuring Calvin is going to clear 20 million dollars to sign suh and fairley.. good luck with that Suh is already a $22mill cap hit, so you are a acting as if we have to find ANOTHER $20 mill. We will have to find around $10-12mill. Frankly, as I read more into the DT depth in this draft- I don't think it's worth keeping Fairly.... Not For what he thinks he deserves. In the games he DID play- his rating was in the red in half of them while playing along side Suh, Jones and Ansah... Maybe the guy isn't what he was ever hoped to be and he was only showing spots of potential because he was capitalizing on fortunate circumstance. Still though, if they can get him in a 1yr deal for 3-5mil, and Keep Suh for a reasonable amount... Sure, with the aforementioned cuts, you would think that there is room to be creative.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 11, 2015 18:00:34 GMT -5
Seeing as you can't keep both Fairley and Suh, I would rather have Suh. Rob Sims' play has declined dramatically each of the last two years. Rashean Mathis has been a warrior the last two years, but is 34 and not getting any younger. I get it. Cut all experience and add depth with cheap inexperienced talent. Over the last few seasons the Lions has added a few pieces on the defensive side of the ball to make the unit better. Now you want to cut the meat away to keep Suh. Sounds like an ass backwards plan. I would not say that letting Mathis walk is cutting the meat away. He is a 34 year old CB that isn't getting any younger. His dropoff is going to happen fast. Sims play has gotten progressively worse, and if he expects another 3-4 million per year contract he is getting overpaid. Jones and Bush are both way overpaid for the production that the Lions get from them. Again, I don't see how that is cutting the meat. It is more trimming the fat. Either way, some team is giving Suh a long term deal this offseason. For the Lions to let him walk and get nothing for him is dereliction of duty by the front office.
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 11, 2015 20:16:50 GMT -5
Tulloch restructured will free up maybe 2-3 mil, cutting bush will free up less than 2, Broyles will free up 1, so youre basically saying you think cutting jones and restructuring Calvin is going to clear 20 million dollars to sign suh and fairley.. good luck with that Suh is already a $22mill cap hit, so you are a acting as if we have to find ANOTHER $20 mill. We will have to find around $10-12mill. Frankly, as I read more into the DT depth in this draft- I don't think it's worth keeping Fairly.... Not For what he thinks he deserves. In the games he DID play- his rating was in the red in half of them while playing along side Suh, Jones and Ansah... Maybe the guy isn't what he was ever hoped to be and he was only showing spots of potential because he was capitalizing on fortunate circumstance. Still though, if they can get him in a 1yr deal for 3-5mil, and Keep Suh for a reasonable amount... Sure, with the aforementioned cuts, you would think that there is room to be creative. We do have to find another 20 million. what arent you getting? we have 20 mil in space.. right now suh counts 0 against that. so when you sign him for 17 per, then your 20 mil is basically gone. then you need money to sign FAs and your rookies. so you basiclaly have to clear another 20, yes. paying Fairley 5 mil isnt top 3 DT money. Atkins and mccoy both make north of 11 per so yeah, i think he could easily get 5 per.
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 11, 2015 20:18:40 GMT -5
If Suh gets 17-18 and fairley gets 5-6, then yeah, you need to clear another 20 to get everything else done
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
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Post by Pollux on Jan 11, 2015 20:35:02 GMT -5
If Suh gets 17-18 and fairley gets 5-6, then yeah, you need to clear another 20 to get everything else done I wouldn't pay him more than 15. Negotiate until free agency then tag him if you have too and take your compensation.
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 11, 2015 20:54:12 GMT -5
If Suh gets 17-18 and fairley gets 5-6, then yeah, you need to clear another 20 to get everything else done I wouldn't pay him more than 15. Negotiate until free agency then tag him if you have too and take your compensation. I guess. but then youre playing russian roulette. If you can get him for 17, then i say you do it. if someone wants to pay him 20, let them
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Pollux
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Post by Pollux on Jan 11, 2015 21:15:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't pay him more than 15. Negotiate until free agency then tag him if you have too and take your compensation. I guess. but then youre playing russian roulette. If you can get him for 17, then i say you do it. if someone wants to pay him 20, let them I'm not going to be angry if they pay him the 17 but he's not worth it. He does a fraction of what Watt does.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 11, 2015 21:31:30 GMT -5
I guess. but then youre playing russian roulette. If you can get him for 17, then i say you do it. if someone wants to pay him 20, let them I'm not going to be angry if they pay him the 17 but he's not worth it. He does a fraction of what Watt does. It is hard to compare the two because Watt is not a true DT. You have to look at what they do for their team. Without Suh this defense goes from top 5 to bottom 12... easily.
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Post by joeking1978 on Jan 11, 2015 21:36:38 GMT -5
Suh is already a $22mill cap hit, so you are a acting as if we have to find ANOTHER $20 mill. We will have to find around $10-12mill. Frankly, as I read more into the DT depth in this draft- I don't think it's worth keeping Fairly.... Not For what he thinks he deserves. In the games he DID play- his rating was in the red in half of them while playing along side Suh, Jones and Ansah... Maybe the guy isn't what he was ever hoped to be and he was only showing spots of potential because he was capitalizing on fortunate circumstance. Still though, if they can get him in a 1yr deal for 3-5mil, and Keep Suh for a reasonable amount... Sure, with the aforementioned cuts, you would think that there is room to be creative. We do have to find another 20 million. what arent you getting? we have 20 mil in space.. right now suh counts 0 against that. so when you sign him for 17 per, then your 20 mil is basically gone. then you need money to sign FAs and your rookies. so you basiclaly have to clear another 20, yes. paying Fairley 5 mil isnt top 3 DT money. Atkins and mccoy both make north of 11 per so yeah, i think he could easily get 5 per. I didn't say Fairly getting 5 mill was top 5 money. Reading is fundamental Flem. I said if he he thinks he is getting more than that (ie- the 7-10mill range eruff mentioned) that would put him in the top 5 paid for the position. So we pay Suh $17 mill. We have $20 mill cap space. It leaves us with $3 mill. Now cut Bush, Jones, Broyles = almost $8mill in cap relief. Restructure Tulloch and Johnson and save maybe another $2mill. We have another 3.7 tied to Sims as well that cold be managed some how. So that gives us almost $14 mill more for FA and draft pick signings. That Said, Suh is a $22 million hit this year. Are you subtracting this from your $20 mill available? I'm trying to follow your math... With the cap going up, And his $22mill coming off the books- how do we only have $20 mill of cap space in 2015?
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
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Post by Pollux on Jan 11, 2015 21:46:46 GMT -5
I'm not going to be angry if they pay him the 17 but he's not worth it. He does a fraction of what Watt does. It is hard to compare the two because Watt is not a true DT. You have to look at what they do for their team. Without Suh this defense goes from top 5 to bottom 12... easily. Yeah I know he's not a true DT but he's a leader and does other things to help his team win. Suh takes a double team and then when he's motivated enough still gets free and to the QB or RB. Not a leader and does stupid shit that's detrimental to the team like stomping and walking on people. I don't think he'll ever be a leader due to his attitude and I'm ok with that. Maybe if he played hard every time he was in and didn't take plays off I'd be more inclined. He's rotated in and out to keep things fresh and he still takes plays off. For a stretch there until GB in week 17 and the Cowboys playoff game I feel he was absent. I know him just being on the field is a game changer but I don't know if that's worth 17.
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Post by aaugusti on Jan 11, 2015 22:43:26 GMT -5
We do have to find another 20 million. what arent you getting? we have 20 mil in space.. right now suh counts 0 against that. so when you sign him for 17 per, then your 20 mil is basically gone. then you need money to sign FAs and your rookies. so you basiclaly have to clear another 20, yes. paying Fairley 5 mil isnt top 3 DT money. Atkins and mccoy both make north of 11 per so yeah, i think he could easily get 5 per. I didn't say Fairly getting 5 mill was top 5 money. Reading is fundamental Flem. I said if he he thinks he is getting more than that (ie- the 7-10mill range eruff mentioned) that would put him in the top 5 paid for the position. So we pay Suh $17 mill. We have $20 mill cap space. It leaves us with $3 mill. Now cut Bush, Jones, Broyles = almost $8mill in cap relief. Restructure Tulloch and Johnson and save maybe another $2mill. We have another 3.7 tied to Sims as well that cold be managed some how. So that gives us almost $14 mill more for FA and draft pick signings. That Said, Suh is a $22 million hit this year. Are you subtracting this from your $20 mill available? I'm trying to follow your math... With the cap going up, And his $22mill coming off the books- how do we only have $20 mill of cap space in 2015? Suh counts a little over 9 million against the cap this year regardless of whether or not he is on the team, the reason that he is a free agent this year is because his contract voids 5 days after the Super Bowl. There is not money tied up in Sims. He is a free agent. Tulloch has a cap number of 5.8 Million, and the Lions save over 3 if he is cut. I am thinking that he has already been told th take a new deal offering him the vet minimum and some other incentives to bring that number down or hit the road. The other move I would like to see made is with Levy. His cap number is 4.5 Million and next season is a contract year for him. I would like to see the Lions lock him up long term, with also bringing that number down a shade.
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jrolla
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Post by jrolla on Jan 12, 2015 8:54:24 GMT -5
It is hard to compare the two because Watt is not a true DT. You have to look at what they do for their team. Without Suh this defense goes from top 5 to bottom 12... easily. Yeah I know he's not a true DT but he's a leader and does other things to help his team win. Suh takes a double team and then when he's motivated enough still gets free and to the QB or RB. Not a leader and does stupid shit that's detrimental to the team like stomping and walking on people. I don't think he'll ever be a leader due to his attitude and I'm ok with that. Maybe if he played hard every time he was in and didn't take plays off I'd be more inclined. He's rotated in and out to keep things fresh and he still takes plays off. For a stretch there until GB in week 17 and the Cowboys playoff game I feel he was absent. I know him just being on the field is a game changer but I don't know if that's worth 17. You can question a lot of things about Suh but being Motivated is not one of them. You're also the first person I have heard say he takes plays off. Dude is a fucking monster on the field and hasn't missed a game.
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 12, 2015 9:02:13 GMT -5
We do have to find another 20 million. what arent you getting? we have 20 mil in space.. right now suh counts 0 against that. so when you sign him for 17 per, then your 20 mil is basically gone. then you need money to sign FAs and your rookies. so you basiclaly have to clear another 20, yes. paying Fairley 5 mil isnt top 3 DT money. Atkins and mccoy both make north of 11 per so yeah, i think he could easily get 5 per. I didn't say Fairly getting 5 mill was top 5 money. Reading is fundamental Flem. I said if he he thinks he is getting more than that (ie- the 7-10mill range eruff mentioned) that would put him in the top 5 paid for the position. So we pay Suh $17 mill. We have $20 mill cap space. It leaves us with $3 mill. Now cut Bush, Jones, Broyles = almost $8mill in cap relief. Restructure Tulloch and Johnson and save maybe another $2mill. We have another 3.7 tied to Sims as well that cold be managed some how. So that gives us almost $14 mill more for FA and draft pick signings. That Said, Suh is a $22 million hit this year. Are you subtracting this from your $20 mill available? I'm trying to follow your math... With the cap going up, And his $22mill coming off the books- how do we only have $20 mill of cap space in 2015? We have 20 mil in space.. thats it. there's no "with his 22 mil coming off the books". with the guys we have signed for 2015 and the dead money thats allocated, we have 20 mil. you wont get 8 mil out of bush, jones, broyles. you'll get like 4.5-5. so if you sign suh to 17 and cut those three, you have 8 mil in space left. so you need to clear another 12.
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jrolla
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Post by jrolla on Jan 12, 2015 9:06:14 GMT -5
With Fairley I think the issue for him in FA will be the length of any deal he is offered. He is coming off a serious injury and his weight was an issue in the past. I think he did a good job controlling his weight after that all came out earlier in the year but still I don't think any team is going to offer him a long term deal unless it has a ton on incentives.
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Post by flemgoblue on Jan 12, 2015 9:21:36 GMT -5
I say we sign Rubin and Fairley and let Suh walk if he wants more than 16-17
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