Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 9, 2017 19:51:34 GMT -5
Pep Hamilton.
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Post by Juicy on Jan 9, 2017 22:40:21 GMT -5
I don't think anyone wants or expects mccaffery to do anything but red shirt next year.
Apparently the Peters hype train is real so if there is anyone that could steal the spot from WILTON it would be him. Still very unlikely.
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Post by mtdman on Jan 10, 2017 20:56:20 GMT -5
Shocked about Peppers. Never saw that coming.
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reggie
All-Pavel Datsyuk
Posts: 895
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Post by reggie on Jan 10, 2017 20:59:23 GMT -5
now who are they going to get to return kicks and not play in bowl games?
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Post by eruff on Jan 11, 2017 7:57:42 GMT -5
For some of you, is the honeymoon over with Harbaugh? For me I like what he has done in his first 2 seasons. Some of the the losses have been hard to take, but overall his team's have performed well. Now his team has to take the next step, but I see problems next season. On offense: QB, must improve, not sure if Speight can. Or does it come from someone new? The O-line will be the biggest challenge and I don't see that improving, unless they have some recruited extremely well. RB & WR positions should be good. The defense will have many new faces, hopefully they will have some future stars developing. Many questions next seasons. Hey all we heard was Hoke had good players, but couldnt coach them up and how much better Harbaugh would make those players....
Now it's Harbaugh needs his own class of players....
Then it will be Harbaugh needs another 3 seasons.....
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 11, 2017 8:29:47 GMT -5
For some of you, is the honeymoon over with Harbaugh? For me I like what he has done in his first 2 seasons. Some of the the losses have been hard to take, but overall his team's have performed well. Now his team has to take the next step, but I see problems next season. On offense: QB, must improve, not sure if Speight can. Or does it come from someone new? The O-line will be the biggest challenge and I don't see that improving, unless they have some recruited extremely well. RB & WR positions should be good. The defense will have many new faces, hopefully they will have some future stars developing. Many questions next seasons. Hey all we heard was Hoke had good players, but couldnt coach them up and how much better Harbaugh would make those players....
Now it's Harbaugh needs his own class of players....
Then it will be Harbaugh needs another 3 seasons.....
One thing Hoke did exceptionally well at (with the help of Greg Mattison): Recruit and develop Defensive Lineman. That area was both Hoke and Mattison's speciality, and that is the area that this team was strongest at....carrying them through present day. Under Harbaugh, this team has made drastic improvements on special teams, quarterbacks and secondary. You could argue that the WR's took a huge step forward in 2015, but a big step backwards in 2016. The offensive line was a problem under Hoke, and continues to be so under Harbaugh (some of that is depth related).
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reggie
All-Pavel Datsyuk
Posts: 895
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Post by reggie on Jan 11, 2017 8:38:36 GMT -5
don't confuse "good players" with "highly rated recruits". some of hoke's highly rated recruits were garbage juice.
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Post by philly on Jan 11, 2017 9:05:03 GMT -5
He recruited good for defense (except linebacker), bad for offense.
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Post by eruff on Jan 11, 2017 13:04:46 GMT -5
Hey all we heard was Hoke had good players, but couldnt coach them up and how much better Harbaugh would make those players....
Now it's Harbaugh needs his own class of players....
Then it will be Harbaugh needs another 3 seasons.....
One thing Hoke did exceptionally well at (with the help of Greg Mattison): Recruit and develop Defensive Lineman. That area was both Hoke and Mattison's speciality, and that is the area that this team was strongest at....carrying them through present day. Under Harbaugh, this team has made drastic improvements on special teams, quarterbacks and secondary. You could argue that the WR's took a huge step forward in 2015, but a big step backwards in 2016. The offensive line was a problem under Hoke, and continues to be so under Harbaugh (some of that is depth related). You can argue that OL in college football is a over exaggerated concern. With the spread being the trend the OL talent pool has been deluted. UM problem is that they will never be able to line up like Bama and run through the teeth of defenses anymore. Even Bama had to be more open minded on offense.
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 11, 2017 13:16:42 GMT -5
Eruff, now that Peppers has offially declared for the NFL, lets get back to our wager. You said he wasn't a 1st round draft pick. What are you willing to bet on that?
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Post by ChrisBrown on Jan 11, 2017 16:27:47 GMT -5
This calls for some charts! 2011 - This was the hybrid RichRod/Hoke class, so I'll only count guys who committed after Hoke took the job (1/11/2011). A quick explanation...the Rating category is the player's star rating on the 24/7 Composite, and the OFP is my opinion of that player's on-field performance. For my rating system, you get 0 stars if you never played, 1 star if you played but basically did nothing, 2 stars is you were a seldom-used reserve, 3 stars if you were an average starter or a solid reserve, four stars if you were an above-average starter who earned conference acclaim, and 5 stars if you were a good starter who earned national acclaim. Name | POS | Rating | OFP
| Diff | Comment | Antonio Poole
| LB
| 4*
| 0*
| -4
| Never played a down at UM due to injuries.
| Chris Bryant
| OL
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Played in 3 career games. Injury troubles.
| Raymon Taylor
| DB
| 3*
| 3*
| 0
| Solid career. Made 32 starts at corner.
| Chris Barnett
| TE
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Never played a down for Michigan.
| Frank Clark
| DL
| 3*
| 4*
| +1
| Developed into a good DE, though never a monster performer.
| Russell Bellomy
| QB
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Played in six games. Was terrible in his only important game action.
| Thomas Rawls
| RB
| 3*
| 2*
| -1
| Ran for 330 yards and 5 TDs on 73 carries over three years.
| Tamani Carter
| DB
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Never played a down.
| Keith Heitzman
| DE/TE
| 3*
| 2*
| -1
| Tenuous 2*. Played in 36 games, made 15 tackles, caught 1 TD.
| Matt Wile
| K
| 2*
| 3*
| +1
| Four-year player, made 20-of-29 FGs, average 40 yards a punt.
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Total: -14 or -1.4 per player
A fantastic class would probably end up with a number around 0, so -14 isn't necessarily a horribly low number, but that -1.4 per kid says it was a real bad class. 2012 - Hoke's first real class. Name | POS | Rating | OFP | Diff | Comments | Kyle Kalis
| OL | 4* | 3* | -1
| Made 42 starts, did receive some awards, but was never very good.
| Ondre Pipkins
| DL
| 4*
| 2*
| -2
| Played in 23 games. Injuries limited impact. Broomed by Harbs.
| Joe Bolden
| LB
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Started 28 games. Solid player, but never quite seemed to figure it out.
| Erik Magnuson
| OL
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Started 36 games. Quality player who made B1G first team as a senior.
| James Ross
| LB
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Made 21 starts. Contributor, but never quite panned out.
| Chris Wormley
| DL
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Made 29 starts. Terrific player as an upperclassman.
| Terry Richardson
| DB
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Played in 15 games, but did next to nothing.
| Royce Jenkins-Stone
| LB
| 4*
| 2*
| -2
| Made 8 starts at LB/DE. Never lived up to hype.
| Tom Strobel
| DL
| 4*
| 2*
| -2
| Appeared in 18 games. Recorded 6 tackles.
| Dennis Norfleet
| ATH
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Made 21 catches as a receiver, was a solid return man.
| Amara Darboh
| WR
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Started 28 games, All B1G second team. Made 151 catches, 14 TDs.
| Jarrod Wilson
| DB
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Started 30 games. Very solid player, 169 tackles and 4 INTs.
| Mario Ojemudia
| DL
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Solid contributor...82 tackles, 8 sacks. Injury spoiled a productive senior year.
| Devin Funchess
| TE/WR
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Difference maker when engaged...126 catches and 15 TDs in three seasons.
| AJ Williams
| TE
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Made 13 starts...sucked until he was solid as a senior.
| Matt Godin
| DL
| 3*
| 3*
| 0
| Solid contributor...40 games and 15 starts, about 50 tackles.
| Ben Braden
| OL
| 3*
| 3*
| 0
| Made 34 starts along the o-line. Contributor, but average.
| Kaleb Ringer
| LB
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Injured and never played a down.
| Jeremy Clark
| DB
| 3*
| 3*
| 0
| Was a solid contributor. Career may not be over.
| Jehu Chesson
| WR
| 3*
| 4*
| +1
| Spent just half a season as an impact player, but 112 catches and 16 total TDs.
| Blake Bars
| OL
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Appeared in 8 games.
| Sione Houma
| RB
| 3*
| 3*
| 0
| Good senior season as a FB, no stats other years...but he was a fullback. Solid.
| Allen Gant
| ATH
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Appeared in 18 games and made 7 tackles.
| Drake Johnson
| RB
| 3*
| 2*
| -1
| Has 641 yards and 8 TDs on 116 career carries. May be coming back.
| Willie Henry
| DT
| 3*
| 4*
| +1
| Played in 35 games, picking up 86 tackles, 10 sacks, and 18.5 TFLs.
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Total: -22 or -0.88 per player Got some very solid 4-year contributors from this class, but they missed on their top guys and also had a lot of underwhelming 4-stars. 2013 - Hoke's highest ranked class Name
| POS | Rating | OFP | Diff | Comments | Derrick Green
| RB | 5*
| 2* | -3 | Never panned out. Compiled 898 yards and 7 TDs on 212 carries before transferring.
| Patrick Kugler
| OL
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| So far only 9 appearances and one start. Passed by many other lineman. May come back next year.
| Dymonte Thomas
| DB
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Solid player saw action in 47 games. Never much of an impact. Should've redshirted.
| Shane Morris
| QB
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Completed 47 passes in 4 years with 5 INTs and 0 TDs. Got Dave Brandon fired.
| Kyle Bosch
| OL
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Played as a Frosh and maybe as a Soph. Kicked off the team by Harbs.
| David Dawson
| OL
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Career backup appeared in 23 games. Grad transfer.
| Chris Fox
| OL
| 4*
| 0*
| -4
| Appeared in one game. Retired due to injury.
| Jourdan Lewis
| DB
| 4*
| 5*
| +1
| One of the best defensive backs in college football the last two years. All American.
| Henry Poggi
| ATH
| 4*
| 2*
| -2
| Played in 31 games, but not much impact, even for a fullback. Probably back next year.
| Mike McCray
| LB
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Very solid this year. Giving him the benefit of the doubt that he'll be all-conference next year.
| Taco Charlton
| DL
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Would probably be a 4.5* if I did that. Had 55 tackles and 18.5 sacks in 46 games
| Logan-Tuley Tillman
| OL
| 4*
| 0*
| -4
| Appeared in one game. May have panned out, but did a very bad thing.
| Jake Butt
| TE
| 4*
| 5*
| +1
| One of the best tight ends in college football. All American. 138 catches and 11 TDs in career.
| DeVeon Smith
| RB
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Solid multi-year starter, but never really more than average. 2,235 yards and 22 TDs in career.
| Ben Gedeon
| LB
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Really good as a senior. Should've redshirted. 176 tackles in 50 games
| Mo Hurst
| DL
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Impact rotation player on D-Line. Could have huge senior year. 19 TFLs in 33 career games.
| Wyatt Shallman
| ATH
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Has been in 11 games and gotten 4 carries. I assume he's gone?
| Delano Hill
| DB
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| He's been a solid starter at safety the last 2 years.
| Jaron Dukes
| WR
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Got into one game in his career.
| Ross Douglas
| ATH
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Got into 18 games. Switched positions multiple times.
| Dan Samuelson
| OL
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Never played a down.
| Csont'e York
| WR
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Appeared in one game, kicked off team.
| Channing Stribling
| CB
| 3*
| 4*
| +1
| Developed into a damn fine starting CB by his senior year.
| Khalid Hill
| ATH
| 3*
| 3*
| 0
| Became an impact FB this year, scoring 13 times.
| Da'Mario Jones
| WR
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Got into 22 games, made 2 catches.
| Reon Dawson
| DB
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Never played a down.
| Scott Sypniewski
| LS
| 2*
| 2*
| 0
| Is a long snapper.
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Total: -43 or -1.6 per player What a fucking disaster. They got a couple huge players in Lewis and Butt, and real strong contributions from Charlton and others, but good lord. Their 5-star RB was a bust, their big-time QB was a bust, and they've gotten absolutely nothing from a 6-man offensive line class and a 3-man wide receiver class. 2014 - Beginning of the End Name | POS | Rating | OFP | Diff | Comment | Jabrill Peppers
| ATH
| 5* | 5* | 0
| Maybe not the second coming of Woodson, but an All American and Heisman finalist.
| Drake Harris
| WR
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Has 8 catches in 2 years. Needs to break out next year, or he's a full bust.
| Bryan Mone
| DL
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Has been key rotation member on DL. Think he'll earn that 4th star next year.
| Mason Cole
| OL
| 4*
| 4*
| 0
| Three-year starter. Borderline all-conference type.
| Michael Ferns
| LB
| 4*
| 0*
| -4
| Never played a down and transferred to WVU.
| Lawrence Marshall
| DE
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Has played in just 7 games and has only 5 tackles.
| Chase Winovich
| LB
| 4*
| 3*
| -1
| Had 35 tackles and 5 sacks last year. Looks like a potentially solid pass rusher.
| Freddy Canteen
| WR
| 4*
| 1*
| -3
| Made six catches for Michigan, left the team.
| Ian Bunting
| TE
| 4*
| 2*
| -2
| Ten catches in 2 years. Wouldn't shock me if he breaks out next year.
| Juwann Bushell-Beatty
| OL
| 3*
| 2*
| -1
| Has one start and 11 appearances. Could see him earning a starting job next year.
| Wilton Speight
| QB
| 3*
| 4*
| +1
| Threw for 2,500 yards and 18 TDs this year. Led team to 10 wins.
| Maurice Ways
| WR
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Just five catches in two years. Has a chance to step up in 2017.
| Noah Furbush
| LB
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Mostly a special teamer so far.
| Brandon Watson
| DB
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Special teamer, cracked the two-deep in dime packages.
| Jared Wangler
| DB
| 3*
| 1*
| -2
| Has three tackles in two years.
| Brady Pallante
| DL
| 3*
| 0*
| -3
| Never played.
| Blake O'Neill
| P
| 0*
| 2*
| +2
| Was pretty damn good, aside from that one play.
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Total: -26 or -1.52 per player Not great, although there appears to be some room for growth in the next year or two. Not gonna bother with the 2015 hybrid Hoke/Harbs class because it's just too early.
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Post by Jive Turkey on Jan 11, 2017 22:07:13 GMT -5
I saw McCaffrey on TV in the summer. I remember thinking he had the skinniest arms I had ever seen on a QB. You will have people saying they hope he starts next year. If Speight starts the next two years as planned, then McAffery will have those two years to gain all the weight UltimateM wants him to gain. People are already saying they think Peters should start next year even though they have nothing to base it on. It's amazing how fans bounce from one player to the next.
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Post by eruff on Jan 12, 2017 8:44:53 GMT -5
Eruff, now that Peppers has offially declared for the NFL, lets get back to our wager. You said he wasn't a 1st round draft pick. What are you willing to bet on that? You want me to bet on a guy with inflated comparions, lol. Are you foolish? You got idiots that dare to say name in the same sentence as Ed Reed, smh....
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 12, 2017 8:46:12 GMT -5
Eruff, now that Peppers has offially declared for the NFL, lets get back to our wager. You said he wasn't a 1st round draft pick. What are you willing to bet on that? You want me to bet on a guy with inflated comparions, lol. Are you foolish? You got idiots that dare to say name in the same sentence as Ed Reed, smh.... You're the one that said he is not a first round draft pick. Now put your money where your mouth is!
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Post by eruff on Jan 12, 2017 8:55:24 GMT -5
You want me to bet on a guy with inflated comparions, lol. Are you foolish? You got idiots that dare to say name in the same sentence as Ed Reed, smh.... You're the one that said he is not a first round draft pick. Now put your money where your mouth is! I did say that and ill say it again, but im not betting on a fraud that has people calling him the next Ed Reed.
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 12, 2017 9:40:42 GMT -5
You're the one that said he is not a first round draft pick. Now put your money where your mouth is! I did say that and ill say it again, but im not betting on a fraud that has people calling him the next Ed Reed. Don't be a pussy.
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Pollux
All-Kirk Gibson
Posts: 3,874
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Post by Pollux on Jan 12, 2017 9:46:15 GMT -5
You're the one that said he is not a first round draft pick. Now put your money where your mouth is! I did say that and ill say it again, but im not betting on a fraud that has people calling him the next Ed Reed. Who said he's the next Ed Reed? That's crazy.
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Post by Juicy on Jan 12, 2017 9:48:21 GMT -5
You're the one that said he is not a first round draft pick. Now put your money where your mouth is! I did say that and ill say it again, but im not betting on a fraud that has people calling him the next Ed Reed. Are you retarded? He is asking you to bet against peppers. Jesus fucking Christ you are stupid as fuck. You said he wouldn't be a first round pick. Fast Freddie is betting you that he WILL be a first round pick. Meaning you would have every round after the first or undrafted. YOU ARE BETTING AGAINST THE GUY YOU ARE CALLING A FRAUD. If you think he is a fraud you SHOULD be taking the bet, but you don't actually think he is a fraud, you just say that because your mini Valenti personality. Either that or you a pussy. (Probably both) Almost as dumb as your reading comprehension is the fact that you are crying about what people call peppers and making it out to be HIS fault what people call him. I get that your schtick is to disagree with anything and everything that anyone say but don't have to be so fucking dumb about it.
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Post by Juicy on Jan 12, 2017 10:24:01 GMT -5
I found eThug dudes so dumb he typo'd his user name. This is just like when joking outed MSUMaNg
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Post by fastfreddie on Jan 12, 2017 10:35:01 GMT -5
I'll make it easy on you Eruff. Let's just do a simple avatar bet, like we used to do during the old days of the Sports Inferno.
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Post by Juicy on Jan 12, 2017 10:41:07 GMT -5
You should do a one month break from posting. Peppers goes in the first eThug takes a month off.
Peppers doesn't go in the first Freddie and I will both take a month off.
Double win for eThug if he actually believed the shit he typed.
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Post by eruff on Jan 12, 2017 10:47:33 GMT -5
You should do a one month break from posting. Peppers goes in the first eThug takes a month off. Peppers doesn't go in the first Freddie and I will both take a month off. Double win for eThug if he actually believed the shit he typed. You still talking even though im not responding to your stupid ass, but if you really want that smoke lets make easy and not type like keyboard warriors. It aint that hard, bruh...
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Post by eruff on Jan 12, 2017 10:54:22 GMT -5
I'll make it easy on you Eruff. Let's just do a simple avatar bet, like we used to do during the old days of the Sports Inferno. It's a loaded gun. Teams will draft just based on his versatilty alone. I wouldnt be suprised a team as bad as the Bears draft him. Plenty of bad GM's in the NFL that love making splashes instead of buidling a team...
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Post by Juicy on Jan 12, 2017 11:01:12 GMT -5
Not a first round pick but could go to the bears..... fucking logic.
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Post by eruff on Jan 12, 2017 11:17:16 GMT -5
Not a first round pick but could go to the bears..... fucking logic. Logic as good as...
Blane Gabbert 2011 Aaron Maybin 2009
Hell I can name many more. Here goes a few more just from the Lions...
Eric Ebron 2014 Mike Williams 2005
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